James J. Dunkin

Knowing people who were really "never the same" after assaults, rapes and aggressive stalkers which hunted them online and off, I found her employment of that term off putting. It diminished their pain while at the same time inflated her own past validity.

Of course, since the controversy broke, trolls have spreading her SSN and address around the web as punishment, which sort of proves her point.

Yet my distaste for Kathy's melodramatic wording is surpassed by the whining over the results.

As a longtime observer the whole Encloypedia Dramatica subculture a thought comes to mind: Lulz is not a one way street, it's a sphere which turn on you, baby.

I've noticed those who champion the roughness of the internet as necessary to free thought when defending their own smack-talking and pranks often get as self-righteous and defensive as those they mock when things don't go their way.

When the receiving end of rough treatment finds ways retaliate effectively using the sane net as a tool, suddenly the web is full of mob rule and unfair.

If you "own your own words", you also own the consequences of your words - which means if you create and promote a potentially offensive site, you may end up owning the wrath, even if you didn't cause the offense.

Many have said say using the web to get attention means being prepared for negative attention. Even Kathy admits this. The point is this applies to Locke et. al. as well as Kathy.

If they really wanted a safe environment to say whatever they wanted with no censorship or retaliation, they could have made it members only. The concept of meankids was inspired by an accusation of bullying and invited provocative material on the WORLD WIDE WEB.

Chris Locke is, it appears, a fully grown adult - he knew this and maybe should have been a bit above it at his age.

Kathy understood the nature of the net as well and - intentionally or not - her response PWND meankids and unclebobism and maybe a bit of the rampant misogyny on the web.

If geek guys feel restricted in how aggressive they can be for fear of being called misogynist, tough cookies. Instead of blaming women, blame the aggressive misogynist assholes who created the tension with their attacks. The whole interactiveness, accountability and unnecessary roughness of the net makes no exceptions for the "authentically" unpleasant.

To quote one of the oldest computer dictums: garbage in, garbage out. Or an even older pre-net one: Karma's a bitch.

trenchant

Locke, a leader and norm-setter in the community, was a constant spokesperson for pathetic, macho fetishization of pure assholishness. He went on to devote his name and time to two websites set up entirely for the purpose of pathetic, macho fetishization of pure assholishness. Anyone who acts surprised that the threatening comments might grow out of that is either stupid or lying.

Is Locke as responsible as the people who made the comments? Of course not - that's a ridiculous position, and I don't know of anyone who has taken it. But when you're instrumental in creating extremely vicious norms within a social space, you're partly responsible for the results.

James J. Dunkin

Chris "has no defenders"?

Sure he does - me.

S.H.A.M.-Scam-Sam

foolswisdom

And, yes, of course death threats are bad. I don't think there's anyone on either side of this issue that's debating that issue. I do think Denise Howell has a pretty interesting point about the intersections between what's legally actionable and what moral compasses exist to guide bloggers.

ReverendJeffy

Yes, there's little proof that Locke was directly involved in the postings. That doesn't mean the issue isn't serious.

Lythic

electrasteph

eth0 said: "I get the feeling Ms Sierra hasn't been a long-term net user. And I would remind everyone that this is nothing but freedom of speech in action. As far as I can see there was no credible death threat - just some comments Ms Sierra found intimidating or disturbing."

Sorry eth0, Kathy's been on the net forever - she created JavaRanch.com back in maybe '97? If you didn't see a credible death threat then I can only assume you didn't actually read her post. Among other things she posted the following comment she recently received: "fuck off you boring slut... i hope someone slits your throat and cums down your gob". Do you live in a world where that's not a death threat? My reading of federal law is that it is.

Nick, you said: "But Chris Locke, despite appearances, is human too, and he has a reputation, which has been trashed, without much thought. Is that something you think is justified?"

Chris helped to create the two sites in question, and the two horrific graphics and comments that Kathy discussed were posts made by the site's creators - they were not reader comments. All Kathy said was that. We don't know who made those posts, Kathy never said that Chris did.

WendySharp: "When the free speech is directed in his direction, it becomes character assassination?"

You are my new hero! (Well, along with you Robert.)

- Bert

BertBates

It doesn't take much searching to see that she has been blogging at least since 2003 and founded JavaRanch, an online community for java programmers in 1998.

tigerbeat

fedbait

gigabait

So Locke is telling the truth when he claims he deleted the entire site, prior to the current TOS violation notice.

I agree the "blogosphere" is going too far with this. I've seen much, much worse, with zero consequences or even reaction. I get the feeling Ms Sierra hasn't been a long-term net user.

And I would remind everyone that this is nothing but freedom of speech in action. As far as I can see there was no credible death threat - just some comments Ms Sierra found intimidating or disturbing. Horrible I'm sure and Sierra has my general sympathy but nothing but a speck in the tidal flow of information ..

My feeling from all of this is nothing so much as this is the moment a bunch of closeted, naiive Californians realised that hey, there's bad people out there in the world! It's not just my circle of SXSW-going Twitter buddies! It's not a walled garden after all! Who would have thunk it.

eth0

Nick Denton

Enric

WendySharp

Scobleizer

In the category of things I never thought I'd say, I agree with Dave Winer: "the mob that's going after them looks a lot more dangerous than they do."

rex

Joel Johnson

Nick Denton

Scobleizer

Nick Denton

Nick Denton

ChiefCynic